[Croatia borders] Croatia and its borders, articles from 2020 & 2021
Croatia and its borders ... not just an issue with Liberland
2020.06.14 : https://balkans.aljazeera.net/teme/2020/6/14/hrvatska-sijece-bih-posmatra-cija-je-suma-na-granici-iznad-bihaca
I find it interesting that Croatia's border conflicts with Liberland, Slovenia, and Bosnia and Herzegovina all involve Croatian forest workers.
Some Liberlanders believe that Sume only obeys Croatian gov's orders.
In France (like in many countries) we have a National Forest Office ... and on the local level they do largely quite what they want, with very few control from the central state.
It may well be also the case in Croatia.
That's why I think Liberland should do something with Sume.
atm we have 0 information about initiatives from LL gov versus Sume. imo this is just losing time.
And also, it is stupid to expect individuel settlers to deal at their individual level with an organization like Sume.
To properly discuss with Sume, this must occur at organization / organization level.
If Sume comes again with big engines, settlers won't be able to do anything with their bare hands.
Quote from Steffen Solling on 2023-12-04, 9:36 amI find it interesting that Croatia's border conflicts with Liberland, Slovenia, and Bosnia and Herzegovina all involve Croatian forest workers.
It's all shadowy and coincidental like isn't it. Plausible deniability.
The truth is, I think, is the Croatian government use Sume to do shit that would be illegal for the government to do directly.
And quite likely Sume has employees that are also employees of Croatia's spook agency.
There has been talk in Signal periodically that we should negotiate with Sume and pay them a big bribe or get some sort of concession from them, or reach some sort of contractual agreement with them that is lucrative to them. Or several other similar suggestions were posted.
I absolutely don't agree with any of these notions for several reasons.
Firstly they are a bunch of arseholes (I'm being relatively polite here) that hate us and are are screwing us and we shouldn't give them any thing rewarding them for this.
Plus if we did they would likely find a way, if they could, to reneg on the agreement in the same way the CCP routinely does. Which would bring us back to square one but poorer.
Another reason is that we don't really know who or what we're dealing with, are they a private company free to negotiate with who ever they please. Or are they a front for the government? Or does Croatia's spook agency use them to plant persons in key positions in order to do dirty work and sabotage on the several bordering countries they operate in? Or are the key decision makers (if in fact they call their own shots which likely they don't) grudge holding stalwarts holding stubborn biases from the Yugoslavia war years? Or all of the above?
In the attached picture if Liberland is the cat and Sume the ball, should the cat attack the ball? Or attack the person operating the string and stick?
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One advantage of trying to get into talks with Sume is that it might help us understand them better, including what motivates their behaviour, and whether or not there are some puppet masters behind them.
Speaking sincerely to Sume would also be a proof of goodwill.
Which will be useful, maybe even necessary, at some point.
When the time will come and LL will stand without any proof of goodwill, we'll look like complete idiots.
2/ the current situation where we act like if settlers are in charge of solving this territorial issue,
and are quite considered as responsible of the daily consequences, has also no sense at all.
There is a territorial issue between entities, it must be solved at the entities level.
... Hopefully the unwillingness to speak with Sume has no unclear reasons.
Quote from Steffen Solling on 2023-12-11, 4:47 pmOne advantage of trying to get into talks with Sume is that it might help us understand them better, including what motivates their behaviour, and whether or not there are some puppet masters behind them.
Yes indeed.
I'd thought of that too.
That would be a great advantage.
My thoughts were that if were to enter into talks with them it be for the purpose of flushing them out, removing their masks, drawing the curtains back so that light can shine on their skeletons, ugliness, mysteries, getting to know and understand who/wtf we're dealing with.
But without the intention to actually negotiate a settlement/bribe rewarding them for being the wreaking ball hate filled destroyers that they've been.
After which, having gained insight into their shadowy make up we could take stock and then decide out next step.
So debatabely not being sincere per say, although in my opinion this is the sincere cautious method to take when dealing with bullies, lairs, destroyers, miscreants, psychopaths of any type be they individuals or entities.
The Hollywood ideal so prevalent in our social conditioning that one side fights dirty but the righteous side plays clean and wins is BS.
In reality it is the cheats who win, the reasonable who loose.
This is the very ideal that the miscreants use to win, and the sincere people loose, look at the political state of the world now and through out history.
As example, that very British notion that gentlemen duel to settle disputes, both having an even chance with the 'better' man winning — bull shit, it's the man that turns at 9 paces and shoot first is the winner, the real gentleman who turns at the agreed 10 paces looses and the gentleman pretender wins.
Besides that, it's LL that has shown sincerity from day one and the Croatian powers that shouldn't be that have been insincere most of the time.